re: Can Islam really take over d world?

re: Can Islam really take over d world? Little Richardjohn - 121st post - 22 Sep 2004 19:13
It isn't a football match. Ultimately, the question of 'domination' isn't even about war and suicide bombers. It definitely isn't some animated Battle of the Gods.
It's about the survival of the most suitable economic system, and the resources that system has at its disposal.
There is an Islamic economic system, which in its own way is just as inherently hostile to capitalism as communism. The absence of interest on loans is a crucial difference and in theory denies western capitalism a huge market.
It is a much more paternal system, and backed up by a very powerful ideology - Islam itself - could create societies which were content enough, if politically and technologically a bit static. If not totalitarian.
Add the potential to control the world's market in oil, and you have a very powerful candidate for the New Red Menace. In theory. [reply] [Complain about this post]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

re: Can Islam really take over d world? Nicky Wilson - 3307th post - 22 Sep 2004 19:11
Look Islam flourished from the 6th century due to their military attacks.
However they then settled down and started to look at learning and advance dfor a couple of hundred years.
But in the 15th century we had the Renissance, then the Reformation and then the period of the Great Enlightenment wher ethe West basically propgressed while islam became more and more religious and more and more anti-scientific.
The only thing stopping the Middle East being like Africa is the oil, which has allowed a few muslims to run riot over others. (Not dissimilar to Australia where they too live off resources that are rapidly running out while intelligent Aussies flee to London and the US).
If the muslims didn't have so much oil they would learn to value science and learning, live off their wits and have put their religion where we have put ours: in the 'nice and interesting, but hardly plausible' category.
Thus the only way that the muslim nations would be able to takeover is if they got hold of sufficient western technology and threatened us with nuclear bombs.
Until then regard the fact that they treat their women as third class citizens (just look at their literacy rates) means they are severely hampering their chances of success. This is one example of how they are unlikely to overtake and control us.
And that is why they so fear democracy as democracy thrives on intelligent debate backed up by facts, not by who your Great-grandfather was and if you are male or female.
So be optimistic! [reply] [Complain about this post]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

re: Can Islam really take over d world? Little Richardjohn - 124th post - 22 Sep 2004 19:42
But you're not comparing like with like.
The question isn't whether a dynamic economic system is more dynamic than a static one, it's whether the dynamic one is VULNERABLE to a static one.
And the key is as much in the society’s ability to control information as in its economy or the control of its oil supply. And digital technology has given Islam a new lease of life on that score.
It was always good at controlling information at a local level, that's what religions do, but now it can control its interpretation of events to a WILLING global audience, many of whom speak the same or very similar languages.
Imagine if The Communist International had been granted those advantages?
Anyway, you could say that we're not that different any more. It would be interesting to compare the similarities, as opposed to the differences. Some other time. [reply] [Complain about this post]


re: Can Islam really take over d world? Nicky Wilson - 3304th post - 23 Sep 2004 12:21
One form of society thrives on science and information and rational thinking, the other on a backward piece of mumbo-jumbo.
What system would most people live under? Pretty obvious. Yes the stupid, the dumb the intellectualy challenged and the uninformed will have a say but most sensible people don't follow it.
Just look at the current alliance of the Far Left wiith their religion (marxism) and muslims and loopy oddball christians.
They all believe in wacky unproveable or failed systems of thought...
Of course they won't triumph in the long term because they subjugate the talents and resources of most of their populations and create a narrow band of self selected 'winners'... [reply] [Complain about this post]


re: Can Islam really take over d world? Little Richardjohn - 128th post - 23 Sep 2004 13:24
Some of the most succesful Regimes in history lasted as long as they did precisely BECAUSE they subjugated the talents and resources of most of their populations and create a narrow band of self selected 'winners' who could be controlled.
In fact, it is almost a measurement of success. And no society has survived, yet, which offered the same opportunities to all. Sensible Muslims want security and stability, just as the recently impoverished middle classes did in Weimar Germany. They don't see that western capitalism is offering them either security or DIGNITY. So, If a clerical Islamic state offers both, why should they refuse? [reply] [Complain about this post]


re: Can Islam really take over d world? Nicky Wilson - 3312th post - 23 Sep 2004 15:00
So what if you are female, a father with daughters, middle class or working class.
The notion that the middle classes run any islamic state is simply ridiculous.
As for 'security' and 'dignity', what security and dignity is there for 99% of Iraqis, 99% of Iranians, 99.9% of Saudis and the Gulf States and for 90% of Jordanians?
And if you don't believe me just consider the awful literacy rates in these countries? [