re: childrens independence Expat - 59th post - 20 Oct 2004 09:30
If the people who now complain about the behaviour of children actually disciplined them or in many cases had been disciplined themselves today's problems would not exist.
I am old enough to remember that if you complained about an adult telling you off your parents would give you a clip round the ear as an extra punishment and then ask what you had been doing.
You may not like 'violence' - no doubt now called abouse, but it did ensure discipline. Of course, we didn't have all the violence and indisciplined children and adults wandering around then.
re: childrens independence Little Richardjohn - 205th post - 20 Oct 2004 10:42
'Discipline' is another fascist-lite phoney, another cop-out to avoid spending any money on proper youth facilities which would keep adolescents stimulated and amused and allow them to socialize in a neutral environment which they felt they were in control of in some way, and which gave then a greater sense of belonging to a wider community which cared about them and respected them as people.
It also distracts from the desperate need to build communities.
Genuine communities automatically deter unsocial behaviour. (That's why it's called unSOCIAL.)
But as Barrenness Thatcher said, 'There is no such thing as society.' Well she got her way and we are now paying the price. Result Marge.
What community do kids belong to now?
Do you live in a community of any kind, or do you 'Keep yourself to yourself'? as most families now have to.
re: childrens independence Expat - 66th post - 20 Oct 2004 13:29
I live in a village surrounded by a forest in which 'shock, horror and screams' there are foxes with rabies.
My children went in there digging trenches, having 'wars' riding bikes, you name it. No one gave a thought.
Now a neighbour says that she is afraid to let her 6 year old walk alone the 100 metres from his house to school because of kidnappers (and I'm not in Baghdad).
It's utter rubbish, of course. The world has not changed a bit.
However, it is a simple fact that children today can't spell anything, let alone discipline or behaviour and are encouraged in it by their parents and all the do-gooders.
If you have a dog you have to train it not to s... across the house, you don't let it do that until it is an adult, then lock it up in a cage until it dies. Yet it's what we do with children. Yes, mine had sore backsides on more than one occasion. It never did them any harm and they are all now married with children of their own (who don't get away with much either).
re: childrens independence Little Richardjohn - 207th post - 20 Oct 2004 17:19
Er yes, good for you!
Meanwhile, back in the real world.
... Rabies you say? Really? Have you reported this?...
Anyway, you are saying, I think, that you can, and should, make adolescent human beings do what you want by hitting them often enough. That is your solution if I get you right. I just want to get this straight.
And you think that parents command enough fear to make their children behave 'properly' when they are out of sight?
I've got news for you, kids know that parents can't see round corners.
Were you ever one yourself? A kid I mean. Did you have acres of countryside to roam around in and a decent park within half a mile, as I did?
Well it isn't like that for millions of kids living in Britain today. For them it's a choice of cooped up indoors driving everyone crazy and being driven crazy by them, or roaming the streets with their mates, looking for some amusement, some stimulation. Anything.
You ignore this abuse of growing minds and you are creating another generation of sociopaths and gangsters. And teaching them how to use pain as a means of persuasion is SUCH good training for their future careers. Well done. Hope I die before they get guns.
And in the end it's all about not being prepared to spend any money. You'd rather victimize an entire generation of teenagers and their parents than be taxed an extra penny to pay for youth clubs, adventure playgrounds, after schools clubs, organized holidays, exchange schemes all things which are desperately needed. Not to mention spending any money doing serious, intelligent regeneration of our towns to create communities which work. It's all about money. Which makes the moral reactionary right the biggest hypocrites there are.
re: childrens independence Daniel Barker - 39th post - 20 Oct 2004 10:42
Of course children should be under supervision most of the time. I find it amazing that young children under 10 are allowed to roam wild causing many problems in our towns and cities. Infact all school age children should have some supervision. The whole problem to day is that children have too many rights and freedoms and that is wrong and bad. The magic 18 does not seem to be so magic any more.
re: childrens independence Little Richardjohn - 206th post - 20 Oct 2004 11:05
Yeah, lock em all up I say. Damn kids, running around, shouting, jumping on things, SINGING, playing FOOTBALL in the street! Riding their bikes next to my car - £25000 that car cost me! If there's ONE scratch...
Don't they know we're trying to watch Eastenders in here. So bang them all behind locked doors until they're old enough to be locked behind a desk somewhere paying tax. Then lock them into a mortgage and pension scheme to pay for us when we get even older and more brain dead than we are now.
What use are they anyway?
Magic? You don't have a clue what the word means. You want to turn kids into old people from the start. Why not just feed them heroin with their Frosties, as the Victorians used to do?
Oh but they've already saved you the trouble, I forgot. Still you and your kind can still take a lot of the credit for that. Congratulations, your concept of nurturing has done a lot to stimulate small businesses in the adolescent tribal system. In fact, the entire drugs cottage industry would collapse if teenagers had something better to do with their time than poison themselves to stop them from wanting to murder their parents.
Another success story for the Barmy Right with their fairy tale fantasy of a world in which if everyone behaved nicely, the world would be nice - as long as the punishments for not being nice were nasty enough.
Punishment and retribution is fine for Bronze Age prophets, but not for today.