Willie Ruff, famous jazz musician and college professor has noticed the structural similarities between antique Hebridean religious 'line- singing' and the Black Gospel music form.
The theory was recently aired on the Channel 4 program 'Gospel Truth' and carries a single overriding message.
Namely, that human beings adapt whatever they need from whatever culture they encounter to preserve their sense of identity and give expression to their feelings.
The ethnic or class differences do not matter. People are always greater than the differences which appear to divide them.
This leaves the isolationists and purists on both sides with the dilemma of explaining how their culture came to be the way it is.
Which tends to lead them to the conclusion that it has always been the same. That culture is a static, immovable object, defined by ethnicity, place and time, and unable to alter to address the questions of the obviously changing world around it.
Which is simply absurd.
typo
posted 22-03-05 14:57
quote:Couldn't agree more with you on this last paragraph on the absurdity of a static culture which never changes. The culture of Britain has never stayed the same. Witness the cultural movements of the pre-renaissance, the enlightenment, the right to vote for women, the conservatism of the Victorian era vs the sexual liberation of the 1960s to the current day where the US culture dominates.
Originally posted by Little Richardjohn:
"That culture is a static, immovable object, defined by ethnicity, place and time, and unable to alter to address the questions of the obviously changing world around it.
Which is simply absurd. "
Culture is a moving feast which changes as the environment around it changes. To try and prevent culture from changing is as futile as the French trying to prevent the english language becoming a part of the french language.Posts: 427
Franciscopizzaro
posted 22-03-05 14:58
Speak English or leave our country Posts: 647
Split Infinitive
posted 22-03-05 15:02
Personally I thought that the music all sounded as much like souix chanting as much as any other kind of music so I'll go for the more general answer to the debate. It's a sort of universal language of emotion.Posts: 1144
Franciscopizzaro
posted 22-03-05 15:30
I watch the programme last night and wasn't impress at all. The thing is, these revisionists always seem to find these stool pigeons Blacks to support their theory.
Next they will be telling us that Black music was a white invention. Infact, I have met kids who think Eminem invented hip-hop and that there's no such thing as Black music Posts: 647
Asarualim
posted 22-03-05 15:47
I watched bits of the programme last night and thought it was quite interesting. Gospel music is an entity in it's own right, but there does appear to be some influence from Gaelic psalm singing of the slave masters - which is just like any other musical genre, they're an amalgamation of various influences and can all be traced back to something. It would be interesting to trace the roots of this gaelic singing to see what influenced that - perhaps they got the idea from black roman soldiers singing on Hadrians wall.
Little Richardjohn
posted 22-03-05 20:12
quote:Willie Ruff is in no way a stool pigeon.
Originally posted by Franciscopizzaro:
"I watched the programme last night and wasn't impress at all. The thing is, these revisionists always seem to find these stool pigeons Blacks to support their theory.
Next they will be telling us that Black music was a white invention. Infact, I have met kids who think Eminem invented hip-hop and that there's no such thing as Black music."
Why is it treachery to point out that human beings are influenced by what they see and hear around them?
The isolationists' view would logically be that all black American music arrived fully formed from Africa. Which presupposes that it had always been that way. Which in turn assumes that the originators of the music were unable to use new forms to express themselves, but merely parroted the same forms as every previous generation. Which is a great insult to the humanity of their supposed ancestors.
Little Richardjohn
posted 22-03-05 20:19
quote:It's something to do with the 'Blue Notes' - the flatted fifths - the Devil's Interval - which pops up in music all over the world from flamenco to the Welsh Baptist Raptural chorus. Now there was music that meant it.
Originally posted by Split Infinitive:
"Personally I thought that the music all sounded as much like souix chanting as much as any other kind of music so I'll go for the more general answer to the debate. It's a sort of universal language of emotion."
When my mother was baptised in the local river, they had to break the ice. When my cousin was baptised, the minister died of a heart attack with her in his arms...
I think they finished the hymn as they took him away.
By the way, the two seminal baptist hymns - 'Amazing Grace' and 'Swing Low Sweet Chariot' are virtually the same hymn, only one is the other upside down.
Salma
posted 22-03-05 22:07
we spend too much time diiscussing wat is different that we forget abt the similarities!Posts: 390
Franciscopizzaro
posted 23-03-05 10:13
"We spend too much time discussing what is different that we forget abt{about} the similarities2" - Salma
Yeah, great speech How about practising what you preach in pratical terms or do you think, humanity can live in harmony without actually interracting with each other on a one to one basis?
People always like to spout the above comments about similarities when its comes to Black culture and art, in order for them to claim or water down black culture to suit their taste. But watch how fast their prejudice comes out on the issue of racism, suddently they have no contact with the people they claim to share similarities with in art and culture
What a load of BS
Little Richardjohn
posted 23-03-05 11:20
... People always like to spout the above comments about similarities when its comes to Black culture and art, in order for them to claim or water down black culture to suit their taste. But watch how fast their prejudice comes out on the issue of racism, suddently they have no contact with the people they claim to share similarities with in art and culture
White Racists have tried to claim that nothing worthwhile could ever be produced by black people and that therefore black music must either be inferior or have white origins.
Willie Ruff's thesis casts doubt on ALL claims of ownership. It implies that culture simply doesn't work that way. And that to deny the dynamic, organic, free nature of culture is to deny that people have the ability to exchange ideas and visions of the world. The further implication being that without that kind of free cultural exchange, you will always have racism.
The flipside of claiming that any cultural form is the exclusive property of any one race or culture is the demand for cultural purity. A world in which cultures are either handed down from above and only change by decree. In other words, a monolithic, static totalitarianism.
Was the music that 1st generation slaves brought to America the same as the music played by their forefathers three hundred years before, d'you think? Would it not have come into contact with other tribes, or the Arab traders from the north? Or did it all spring fully-formed from some legendary prehistoric genius?
Then there was the trade with the south and even India in some cases. Pre-Magellan Africa was a much busier place than we were taught at school. And with trade comes influence. It's all around. And when it stops happening, we're all dead.
It boils down to this: if we're allowed to learn from other people - ANY people, we are more likely to be happy and stimulated and are more likely to find a way of expressing our emotions and our vision of the world. Not to mention being then unable to not respect the people we learn from.
If we're not allowed that basic human right, then our humanity is oppressed and outraged, and we're very unhappy and tend to get a gun and kill our classmates, or run people down in our cars. And we are also naturally suspicious of anyone who looks or behaves a bit differently from ourselves.
Culture is not a jewel to be locked up in a bankvault, it is a way of setting people free. Perhaps the only way.
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